Thread:Mediawatcher/@comment-3581997-20150905032118/@comment-3581997-20150916045843

Yes both exist. And some times they are the same people. Livia Drusilla of Rome for example was both, this is a woman who lived through a civil war and never wanted that to happen again so she manipulated the laws of her government and kept anyone and everyone who she felt might have plunged Rome into a second civil war as far away from her husband the Emperor as possible. According to Robert Grave's I Claudius she was behind a string of deaths of the Emperors friends and family cause she didn't want any of them corrupting him or getting the throne to abuse.