....Hm? Sorry, what are you trying to tell me? I've already posted a removal for her because I feel like she doesn't do enough to stand out. If you feel differently, feel free to vote keep. Just please give a good, thoughtful reason for it.
It's right here, although you should also see it in the blue tab that automatically shows up in the lower right corner of the screen. Honestly, after thinking about it more, I'm starting to consider turning it into a regular proposal since she may actually do enough to stand out.
No, that's a case where I confidently believe someone added him to the category without thinking, and I intend to make a removal for him shortly after this proposal has concluded. It hurts me a little since I think he's a good kid/guy, but he barely does anything that can reasonably be considered heroic or that makes him stand out.
First off, just wanted to say great job on your removal proposals for the Toy Story characters. I would love to be participating in voting on them, but as I am a new user, I cannot. Regarding your most recent proposal on Barbie, I think that her actions in the third movie do a lot to meet the admirable standard. She was romantically involved with Ken, and had the option to stay in the Butterfly Room if she wanted to, but actively chose to break up with him because of how her friends were getting treated. And the fact that she feigned wanting him back, for the sake of psychologically manipulating him in the interest of saving her friends, seems like a highly admirable thing to do. Though on the flip side, I'm seeing other voters saying that she is arrogant, which of course would disqualify her. I personally don't recall her having any moments that suggest she is arrogant, though it has been a while since I watched the film. I'll concede with her being cut if one could refresh my memory on the matter.
I feel like Buzz could be a good PG candidate, specifically from the second movie onwards. What are your thoughts?
Thanks for that; it was clear a lot of cleanup needed to be done, so I figured I would buckle down and help properly sort them out. With regards to Barbie; I don't know. By choosing to stay with her friends, instead of in the Butterfly Room with Ken, she definitely demonstrates loyalty, but I'm still not confident that's more than standard heroism in this series. As I highlighted in the removal, this is a series where toys regularly risk their well-being for their fellow toys, to the point they often get in situations where they risk getting lost, stolen, broken and even destroyed, so the bulk of her heroism being helping her friends return Buzz to normal just makes her seem... kind of standard? I will admit though, I'm not sure myself where these claims that she's arrogant are coming from since I remember the film pretty well, and don't recall any moments of this at all. If anything, I simply don't think she stands out enough, so maybe I'll address this.
As for Buzz... he might qualify. The whole "demo mode" incident was against his will and out of his control, so I don't think that counts as corrupting, and I think he stands out as admirable enough, especially, as you pointed out, by the second movie on-wards when he realizes that he's a toy and comes to terms with it.
I guess we do have to consider two things that would decide if her actions meet such an admirable standard. How necessary were her actions in helping the toys succeed in her plans? Did her part in the plan have a higher level of risk compared to the others?
To answer the first question, I think her actions made a critical difference. She obtained important information that allowed the heroes to partially fix Buzz. If not, the toys would have to escape without Buzz, who would be Lotso's slave forever and would be deeply regretful. Even worse, Buzz could have compromised their plans by successfully warning Lotso and putting them back in prison. EDIT: On second thought, this would make her more virtually resourceful, a separate quality from PG.
As for the second point, she takes quite a large risk in manipulating Ken to interrogate him. Compared to the others, I think she had the least room for error. Woody and Slinky alert the Cymbal Monkey, who beats Woody badly before they get the upper hand on him. Potato Head gets disabled by a bird. Rex and Hamm nearly allow Buzz to warn Lotso. Barbie on the other hand, keeps Ken distracted for a long time, and has no communication from the others on the progress of the plan. She makes a risky decision to decide when to interrogate him to get that manual, because she could have ended up doing it too late, as we saw that Buzz nearly managed to succeed in reaching Lotso. And then there's also the factor that there was no guarantee Ken would have let his guard down like he did in the movie. Though perhaps Rex and Hamm's job of keeping Buzz pinned was arguably more risky; they succeeded in spite of letting him slip. The same can apply to Woody, but ultimately I think Barbie had multiple factors to consider (guaranteeing Ken would let his guard down, and timing).
Glad to see that there may be a possibility of Buzz qualifying, I look forward to seeing a proposal, should you decide to.
You know what? I actually thought about it more, and I reconsidered my stance, to the point I already decided to backtrack and rewrite my proposal for Barbie as a regular proposal for approval. You can read it yourself, but to quickly sum it up, I actually think she does do quite a bit for a character who only has a supporting role in the one movie (she was also featured in in the Hawaiian Vacation short, but that's far more lighthearted to the point that no one really needs to pull off any real heroism).
As for Buzz, I could try doing a proposal for him sometime later, but it could be a little while before I get around to it. After all, my main priority here right now is to remove the category from characters I'm confident it doesn't apply to, and I've got a fair number of other things in my life that I can get busy with. So yeah, I'm open to the idea, but unless someone else wants to do it (which I'd be very open to since it places less pressure on me), you'll have to be patient. Then again, that also means it could happen at a time you're eligible to vote yourself.
Well then, respect to you for your willingness to have your mind changed. Though I most definitely am not taking credit for it by any means. I had a read and you also made a great point about her influencing Ken to have a change of heart. It is in fact quite a common thing for PG heroes to reach the heart of villains, as mentioned on certain categories within the counterpart Wiki. Although less important, you're also correct about her feeling concerned about the toys ending up in the trash, but her decision to say with Ken is fair (and doesn't corrupt her) because Molly didn't want her anyway. And then the point about her helping to make Sunnyside more equal is spot on.
Don't stress about getting a PG proposal up for Buzz right now, I was more just interested in having a discussion about it. In fact, I could be the one to do it, if no one else beats me to it. I think Slinky is also a suitable candidate, as you pointed out him being one of the nicest characters. The only characters left in the PG category without approval are Andy and Molly, and I have no idea why they are there if I'm honest.
I see. Thanks again for that. As for Slinky, yeah, he's another character I've considered, but I'm not absolutely positive about either way. As for Andy and and Molly, I fully intend to have them removed, especially Molly, which I didn't even notice before. In fact, in her case, I'm going to suggest a removal of the page altogether since she literally has no heroism to her credit whatsoever, and even has very little characteriation altogether beyond simply being Andy's younger sister. Trixie is also in the category, but I'm unsure about her, because while she does barely anything in the main movies, she had a more significant role in in the Christmas-themed special, Toy Story That Time Forgot, and I'm not sure whether her actions in it stand out enough or not.
While the original version of Aladdin doesn't qualify as Pure Good, is there a chance that the 2019 version might qualify? From what I remember from watching the remake, he didn't seem arrogant like the original version and was considering telling the truth to Jasmine about his true identity, though, because of him still being a thief out in the streets, I'm not 100% sure if he qualifies or not. Considering Jasmine in the 2019 remake, she doesn't flat-out say that she'd kill Jafar in the face like the original version, though she does call him out for his power-hungry nature.
Also, what did you think of the Aladdin 2019 remake?
I'd really like to say that I consider the live-action version of Aladdin pure good, because I honestly really liked how he was portrayed and personally found him sympathetic even during his worst moments (not that he had any particularly bad ones). However, "Pure Good" might still be too much of a stretch since he was still very tempted to break his promise to set the Genie free and to keep lying about being Prince Ali. Sure, he only did so because after outing Jafar, the Sultan praised him so highly for his integrity that he felt too guilty to admit he wasn't who he said he was, and before that, he genuinely intended to come clean. He also genuinely thought he could become a prince, but the intention of breaking his promise to the Genie still feels like a problem. Plus, like the original, he seems a little too proud of his thieving skills, as evidenced by his "One Jump Ahead" song; sure, he does so cause he has too, but I feel like a true pure good would feel more visible and consistent remorse of having to do that.
However, I do think I would consider Jasmine's live-action counterpart to be pure good; the worst thing she did was not admit her true identity to Aladdin, but even that doesn't really seem corrupting, not to mention she's more admirable since she uses less questionable/iffy methods to deal with Jafar and showed more active concern for her people. That said, I'm not sure the animated Jasmine wanted to necessarily kill Jafar; she said she'd user her power to "get rid of him", which could simply mean banishing him, though she's still more hot-headed and confrontational, not to mention she does less to stand out compared to her live-action counterpart.
Finally, what did I think of Aladdin (2019)? I'm actually one of those people who really enjoyed it all-around, to the point it was one of the few movies from last year where I bought the Blu-ray/DVD combo pack. I wouldn't necessarily give it a 9 or 10 out of 10, but it's one of those movies that's just really fun and engaging from start to finish. They also struck a great balance of being somewhat faithful to the original, but changing just enough to give it its own identity, appeal, and even a bit of extra depth, unlike the Lion King remake, which I found decently done, but still found myself asking "what was the point of making this is they weren't going to bring anything new to the table... beyond making money?" Plus, the casting and performances ended up being great, and most of the movie's humor happens to be right up my alley. For example, that entire scene right after the Prince Ali number where poor Aladdin ends up completely embarrassing himself, either by trying way too hard to come off like a prince, saying the wrong thing, or both (one word; jams), has me cracking up no matter how many times I see it.
1. I am sorry for you about what MIKDOWITCH tried to do to you on Community Central. He has been trying to force me to for things for him for months now on multiple different wikis they literally starts asking for me to help him do something and that is how I automatically know it is them. You are right we should ignore them and I am sorry you had to go through that.
2. I wanted to ask have you heard about the Three Jokers in DC universe yet? They have a comic coming out in September explaining them and how they are different and I can’t wait for it to release.
Oh, hi there. First of all, no, I haven't heard anything about these "Three Jokers", or a comic about them. It sounds neat though, so maybe I'll look it up. As for the situation regarding you-know-who, thanks, I appreciate your sympathy. As for the behavior you just described, yup, that sounds just like them. Whoever this person is, they always display that behavior, regardless of what their username is. Anyway, aside from that incident, this troll has mostly been leaving me alone for a while now, because they know by now that I can see right through their lies and other repetitive behavior, just like everyone does eventually since they're horrible at pretending to be someone else, no matter how many times they do it.
In short, yeah, just ignore them and eventually, he or she will stop and just move on to the next person they think is gullible enough to do things for them. As for me, I'm just not going to let them provoke me anymore. If they want to spread lies about me, I'm sure it'll just lead to the folks from FANDOM looking into it and realizing who's really trustworthy and who's lying (besides, because they keep switching from account to account, none of them build up much edits, establish much goodwill or build up any real trust, so no one with any experience will probably put much stock in their claims). I'll admit I let it get me angry at the time, but now, I'm just not going to give them anything to use as potential dirt against me, because I've been reminded once and for all how pointless it is to engage them.
Yeah I just discovered about the Three Jokers. Jester of chaos said we probably won’t need to make three different pages for Joker. But I can tell who they are as one is the Original Golden Age Joker, one killed Jason Todd and one paralyzed Barbara Gordon. But I do recommend it.
I agree with you on MIDKOWITCH. He also tells lies and he is a hypocrite claiming that he didn't force others to make PG removals/proposals which he actually did in reality, especially when he forced Romeo and Juliet to make a PG proposal of Roger from Ice Age 5 and I told him not to since Roger is actually more of both, an anti-hero and anti-villain and he claims that he is not an anti-hero. Heck, he also forced him to make a removal of Ray the firefly, such as claiming Ray as a jerk at first (though, he never is one) and when I told him not to force Romeo and Juliet to make a removal of him, he is being very mean and rude towards me and even shouted at me. And when I'm actually telling the truth about him, he thinks I'm being rude when I'm not. MIDKOWITCH is actually the one being rude, not me.
Frankly, I wouldn't engage that user. At all. Believe me, I've tried, and no matter what I say to them, no matter how polite I try to be, they always lie. Always. In fact, just because I tried to report a sockpuppet of theirs the other week, they went to Community Central and tried to get me in trouble for falsely accusing them of being MIDKOWITCH, despite the fact that their behavior was identical, they were contacting the same users, etc. Then they sunk to a new low and created more duplicate accounts, under which they accused me of cyberbullying by falsely calling him that, and tried to give off the impression that different users were ganging up on me with the accusations.
So yeah, after that latest experience, I'm officially done trying to talk any sense into this person. They've clearly got major mental issues and will just keep obsessively trying to have their way and keep endlessly denying it's them no matter how many times they're blocked and told why their absurd claims about certain character don't hold up. Then again, the fact they've been endlessly creating sockpuppet accounts for around a year now should have already told me that. In short, just report them as soon as you see their easily recognizable behavior and ignore any messages they send you, whether it's a request or they're trying to play innocent. They're bad news.
P.S. When you mention Romeo and Juliet, I think you mean the user Romeo and Robot, right?
MIDKOWITCH seriously needs to learn some respect as well and control his temper. He also did lie about when he gets alternate accounts he pretends to be someone else while in reality, he is ACTUALLY the same person.
And yes, I'm referring to that user, Romeo and Robot because MIDKOWITCH actually did force him to make a PG proposal of Roger and a removal of Ray the Firefly and I told him not to as he is being very rude towards me, lying to me and shouting at me for no serious reasons.