Hey there, I noticed that you requested that the Walter White page be deleted, but not the ones for Mike Ehrmantraut or Jimmy Mcgill/Saul Goodman. I'm curious as to why, given the fact that both are as, if not more morally questionable than Walt. If Jesse Pinkman can be categorized as "redeemed", then so can Walter in my opinion.
let me explain, no, walter is far worse than both mike and saul, saul was not completely devoid of morals and mike actually did all of his crimes to help his family, whether or not they should be deleted is debateable but none of them put a kid in the hospital to save their own skin, if u get what i mean, as for jesse, jesse wanted to get out of the business to live a normal life with andrea and brock, and tried to get walter arrested cuz walt literally dragged him back in after he was turning his life around
Saul suggested that Hank be killed to "save his own skin", and Mike has proven multiple times to be willing to kill innocents, such as the daughter of Lydia, and the two guys in the train. Context matters when it comes to Brock, while Walt didn't have to poison him, he didn't have to make an effort to use a non lethal dose. As for Jesse, he tried to get Walt arrested because he found out about Brock, but he could have just gotten into the dissapearers car and started a new life. Not outright killing Brock, and the good things he did, means that Walt is not completely devoid of morals either. He started cooking meth for his family, just because that changed doesn't mean that it was always just for his ego, it was probably both, actually. People can have more than one motivation for doing something.
ok here's the thing tho, yes in the beginning he did bad things for his family, which does not make him an anti-hero, rather an anti-villain, a user removed fallen heroes from his page for this reason, also while walt was an anti-villain, he changed very quickly which just showed it wasn't really a change as much as his true nature taking over, i'm willing to argue walt was never truly good but more just a pushover
You only addressed my last point, and even if your argument holds water, that doesn't mean that I'm wrong in my argument. Why is his character the only one debatable when he shares so many similarities to Mike and Saul, who have been doing bad things that longer than Walt, I might add. How do you now if someone was never truly "good". We haven't seen that much of Walts past, he might have done some very good things in his life, who knows?
mike and saul, mike doesn't belong on this wiki, i've thought about it, and explained on the talk page, we don't know much about walt's past so we can't use that for or agains him being a hero, we can only judge from what we see, saul is also more of a villain than a hero,
basically walter, mike, and saul, just were normal guys who became villains, so your argument definitely isn't wrong,
Thanks for agreeing, I personally see all three as antiheroes, but that doesn't mean you're wrong in seeing them as villains. All I want is for characters to be treated equally when they share similar traits.
Honestly, I would say Walt, because we know for a fact that he's never killed an innocent, he cares about more people than the other two, and he was the only one of the three to arguably redeem himself in the end.
i disagree, but it's your opinion, i actually would say walt is the worst of the three, due to the severe damage his actions cause, and while he may not have killed innocents he had a complete disregard for their lives shown when he bombs the nursing home, and tuco's headquarters,
i don't understand how he could be qualified for this wiki, like you can say he's morally grey, go ahead, however he has less than 5 heroic deeds, which i remember an admin saying is the minimum needed to count as a hero
He's saved Jesse's life multiple times, 5 that I can remember. He's tried to save Hank twice, he exonerated Skylar, he got the money to his family, avenged Hank, put Jesse in rehab, and other things I probably don't remember.
from what i can remember he only had like 3 heroic acts, like truly heroic acts, a lot of the saving jesse was for selfishness since, while he cared about him, he just manipulated him a lot of the time
He risked his life, and his relationship with Gus, when he had an entire lab all to himself, a seven figure salary, and protection from outside threats. That's a lot to sacrifice just to stroke your ego. He also seemed content without Jesse when he was working with Gale, so he didn't need Jesse at all then, or when he saved him.
Also, you didn't say that only one of each act could count, so you already have: getting the money to his family, trying to save Hank, and exonerating Skyler. Add the time he saved Hank by killing Gus, and taking the bullet for Jesse, and you have 5.
ok yea, so i don't remember him being happy working with gale, however you have to take into consideration the character's bad side, walter's bad far outweighs his good, which is also something you should take into account, walt tried saving hank twice, all you mentioned amounts up to about 7 or 8 good things, (i forgot a bunch of them and you're right) but like, his bad outweighs his good, which is another thing that gets characters deleted (such as kylo ren)
But if we're just going by the 5 or more heroic things standard, he definitely qualifies to be on this wiki. If we're going by the bad outweighing the good standard, however, then Mike, Saul, and even Jesse count as well as Walt, right? Mike started out as a dirty cop, Saul started out as a con man, and Jesse was a meth cook/dealer longer than Walt. So the fact that they have been bad longer than Walt has means that their bad outweighs their good as well.
i think it's a combination of both, out of all 4 jesse is the only one who was fully redeemed by the end, the other 3 were merely remorseful, jesse is debateable however Saul and Mike do not belong, they do good things every once in a while but it's more the fact that their bad far outweighs it.
I agree for the most part, but I don't recall Jesse doing much to redeem himself? He was definitely the most remorseful throughout the show, but he didn't really sacrifice much to save anyone. He only tried to get Walt arrested for revenge, like Hank. He knew Walt was out of the business, so there was nobody to save. Leaving the business and trying to give money to people doesn't seem like enough.
yea i'm rewatching and i got to that point, he's not redeemed but is the most remorseful. i will say he's the only one of the 4 who's not a neutral evil characte tho. he does give money to a lot of people but that's probably not enough
I would honestly prefer that all 4 stay on this wiki, since it's up to the viewer whether they're bad or good, or somewhere in between. But since they're mostly antivillains like you said, it makes sense to only have them on villains wiki. Even though it seemed fitting to have those 4, as well as Nacho, on both wikis. Just to cement them as morally ambiguous characters.
I'll bet it's because he's considered the most sympathetic by many people, and because of how much he suffered, he's seen as redeemed. In any case, it's not that big a deal, right? After all, nobody's personal opinion of a character should be influenced by a wiki, or anything else for that matter.
yeah, rick potion doesn;t count towards this character, you listed the season 4 episode, big trouble in lil sanchez and childrick of morty, which is still probably not enough to balance out his selfishness in the episode where he gets that girlfriend, the episode where rick goes to jail, and multiple other examples
But don't a lot of people here do selfish things frequently. Plus Rick going to jail wasn't because Jerry was being selfish. In fact, it was more selfish of Rick to put his family's life at risk and not turn himself in.
I meant he did care for his family. He literally said that their lives on a SMALL planet really sucked. He points out they shouldn't put themselves at risks for a guy like Rick. The family's love for Rick shielded their judgement. Beth's only reason for doing what Rick says was so he doesn't leave again.
"It's harmful because people can wrongfully put people as heroes." Technically Jerry isn't that much different from other flawed protagonists. He perfectly fits all the categories. The admin didn't say no. He just said to broaden the page and add more details his sense of heroism so I did. I have to give myself credit for being up to date with how things work here.
Well, I give up. Just to point out that the ones here who pick who stays or not have inconsistent views on a character are so inconsistent that I have no respect for anyone here. I mean COME ON, Cyril Figgis and Jerry Smith are the exact same person. So may I never be a part of this site if I don't have a fair trial.
So the reason Phineas is the actual protagonist of the show is because there's actually considerably more focus on him than Ferb. Phineas is clearly the leader of their group and the idea guy, while Ferb is mainly just an engineer. A big part of this is the fact that Ferb doesn't talk much, which causes the focus to immediately shift towards Phineas and away from Ferb. There are also some minor details. Notice how whenever Candace angrily stomps up to them and demands to know what they're doing, she ends up mainly talking to Phineas, since he's usually the only one who responds. In fact, most people (aside from Phineas) don't even directly talk to Ferb unless he initiates the conversation. Also take note of how Phineas has three different catchphrases used in every episode, while Ferb is mostly silent, making Phineas a more dominant character. Overall, Phineas is the most important character in the A-plot, and Ferb mainly exists to give him someone to talk to (hence his silence).
I added Joe and Cleet and it seems like everytime I add the two as Arhtur's enemies you end up deleting something. In Dutch's eyes and mind he sees it as and believes that Arthur betrayed him even though that is not true. So from Dutch's view he thinks Arthur is no longer a ally or friend to him anymore but Dutch is wrong.
When I mentioned about Bill and Javier questioning Arthur and John's loyalty to Dutch later on. There are moments were Bill and Javier walk up to Abigail, Uncle, Charles and other surviving members of the gang questioning their loyalty. But those moments are so random you never know when they will pop up in the game. Bill and Javier even get mad at Abigail, Uncle, Charles and others when they think that they are betraying Dutch.
Actually Bill Williamson and Javier Escuella do become Arthur's enemies. When Bill and Javier side with Dutch and Micah they were ready to fight and shoot Arthur and John later in the stroy.
Later in the game there are also random moments around camp Bill and Javier walk up to Arhtur questioning his loyalty to Dutch. They also ask for Arthur to stop questioning Dutch's actions. There is a moment when Arthur and Charles are talking to each other and Bill wants to know what they are saying. Bill believes they Arthur and Charles are betraying Dutch so with all that evidence yes Bill and Javier started becoming enemies to Arthur Morgan. Infact before they side with Micah Bill and Javier start to get mad angry at Arthur during their conversations.
As for Joe and Cleet they are friends with Micah they joined the gang later on. When they joined close to the end of the story mode Joe and Cleet were not friends with Arthur they were strangers he didn't know.